Sorry again for the long episode, but there was so much to say yet again – this time, starting with the spin-off that failed to spin out entirely. Did any of you all watch Young Americans? How was it? Was the Will Krudski we meet in "Stolen Kisses" the same (or different) in his own show helmed by a non-Dawson's crew?
From Traci: "I love where we are in the season with the slow build-up to a Dawson/Joey/Pacey love triangle, but to introduce a new character right now like Will, for the purposes of having audiences latch onto him, is tough. I almost wonder if the writers didn't give Will enough of a chance to grab our attentions when so much of the audience was deeply interested in what would happen with our core four first. Maybe they should've brought Will on earlier?"
And then, of course...there's Aunt Gwen. Oh, Aunt Gwen. As listener Rachel puts it, "She's the worst. The writers really made that a family trait."
From Charles: "Re: the ridiculousness of Aunt Gwen’s decision making concerning Pacey, Joey, and Dawson, I decided to time it out the best I can. Joey finds Pacey and talks to him about their feelings more or less right after he leaves karaoke. They start kissing, and Gwen catches them almost IMMEDIATELY, meaning she also left right after Joey did. Gwen tells Joey she should tell Dawson. The next time we Joey, she is about to talk to Dawson later that night when Gwen interrupts them nearly immediately to give Dawson the painting.
That means Gwen’s night, in order, was: Get Dawson and Joey to do their karaoke duet. Catch Joey and Pacey kissing. Give Joey advice to tell Dawson. FIND THE PAINTING OF JOEY AND DAWSON, AND DECIDE TO GIVE IT TO DAWSON. Give Dawson the painting before Joey can tell him her feelings. Wow."
We also see Leery's Fresh Fish open for business and doing well, and dealing with some staff drama led by Jen and her jealousy. And could Mitch and Gail be on the path toward reuniting?
Episode links:
- FanForum: Dawson's Creek music guide (We got sent this by Jaime earlier this year, and thanks Jessica for tweeting it to us recently!)
- Billion-Dollar Kiss: The Kiss That Saved Dawson's Creek, and Other Adventures inTV Writing
- Reminiscing about the summer of Dawson's Creek spin-off Young Americans (Entertainment Weekly)
- SIDE NOTE: We noted on the podcast that the article incorrectly stated the group met Will when they went to Dawson's grandma's house... well, we tweeted, and they've corrected it!
- The Power of Pacey: How Dawson’s Creek Switched Ships Mid-Stream (note: this page is no longer up, but here's a web archived version)
Hey guys, you can watch it here :) https://www.youtube.com/user/IckyGrub/videos
ReplyDelete(Thank you again Traci!)
ReplyDeleteNice job as per usual Traci and Charles :) It's fitting this ep was so long considering it feels like decades have passed waiting for this episode discussion. Aunt Gwen, good grief, she's so weird! She left her husband for a man that made her feel alive then even after she sees Joey kissing Pacey, she still shoves that ugly painting down Dawson's throat pushing him towards Joey. Dawson and Joey already explained to her why they weren't together so why try to push Dawson and Joey together again? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Joey is trying to figure out her feelings for someone else. Leave them all alone you ridiculous hypocrite.
Anyway, you mentioned the awkwardness between Pacey and Joey esspecially in the beginning. I've always read that scene differently. I just took it as them both knowing the kiss meant more than they want to admit to the other but now Pacey joining them was going to mean the charade of it not being a big deal was going to be a challenge having to pretend they don't have feelings for each other which is where I think the hilarious hostility came in later.
The sleeping arrangement was so contrived though lol On what planet would you see teens give up a bed in order to sleep on the floor and none of them thought to give the bed to the girls? Besides that, did Aunt Gwen ban anyone from sleeping on the sofa? It's silly but I'm glad they stuck Joey and Pacey in the same bed otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Joey saying: "Pacey, get your butt away from me" Pacey: "My butt wants nothing to do with your butt" which still cracks me up no matter how many times I watch this episode.
Henry and Jen: "Yawn"
Gail and Mitch: "Zzzzz"
Traci, I have to disagree with you about why Dawson turned into Jafar from Aladdin after he finds out about Pacey and Joey. It's fact that Dawson is a creep. Look at how he acted when Jen broke up with him in s1. Once his obsession moved over to Joey, he labeled them soul mates. From that moment he metaphorically tinkled on her like a dog marking his territory. She was his and that was that and she was supposed to not fall for anybody until he was ready to be with her again. Remember in Four To Tango when he was squeezing out bricks because he thought Joey and Pacey were having a fling or something? Pacey called him out. Dawson was fine if he didn't feel threatened. I don't think he felt threatened by AJ, I think he did feel threatened by Pacey (Pacey rented her a wall and beat up a punk for her and he's just an all around better human being than he is) which is why he goes complete Jafar on poor Pacey and tries to take him out by boat lmao I can't with this show.
I have to agree the sleeping arrangement scene always struck me as very contrived. Like when I was in high school, the bed would have been the first option gone! haha I still enjoyed the palpable sexual tension between Joey and Pacey though lol
DeleteThat's true, re: Dawson feeling threatened and acting out. I think I just want too badly to root for a show's main character sometimes, but I have PLENTY of negative thoughts about what Dawson does in 3x21 and beyond!
Delete-Traci
Same Traci, same. I cannot wait to hear what you both have to say about that one lmao It's so over the top ridiculous. For him to have that much hate was ridiculous. Feelings happen and I've just always been annoyed with that notion that 2 people on their own life path, are not allowed to fall for each other because you're friends with one and dated the other. Would it be painful or awkward? Sure but that's when you remove yourself for awhile until you think you can handle seeing them together and hopefully if they care about you, then they'll respect that and be considerate. I guess I'm weird in thinking that if I dated a guy and it didn't work out, then that meant he can't fall for anybody I know or that I'm friends with. Maybe the reason I came into their lives was because they were the ones actually meant to be together and I was the catalyst for them meeting? lol Idk I mean, nobody owns another person so if an ex falls for my best friend, then I will accept that without turning into a Disney villian lmao Maybe I'm the weirdo in that thinking but I have strong feels about this. I should save this for when that ep is discussed but it's one of my pet peeves. Yes PaJo should've talked to Dawson but they were just beginning to figure out what the crap they were thinking and feeling. I mean the end of SK was Joey just coming to terms with her feelings and allowing herself to let go and feel what she actually felt for Pacey. They were trying to deal with all of that and were actually worried about hurting Dawson so instead of being the wounded deer acting like a car, a tow truck and a horse and carriage ran over him, why not let them explain why they hadn't told him? He didn't care, he was just pissed off that Pacey developed feelings for Joey (his most prized possession) and dared to do something about it. And lastly, another thing that burns me up about this stupid Jafar behavior is Dawson acting like Joey had no control over her own feelings and choices. He stayed pissed off at Pacey but Joey was forgiven because obviously she was just a victim of Pacey's advances. Obviously she was forced by Pacey to go along with "sneaking" around behind his back, and she was just confused. It was Pacey who made her get over him and it was Pacey who stopped her from telling him the truth... the whole thing was Pacey's fault... duh. I swear I despise that character more and more every single time I discuss this show lmao
DeleteI personally enjoy long podcasts--anywhere between 1 1/2-2 hours is good for me, even longer is fine too if the content is worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of a summer season for a show wasn't new at that time (for Young Americans). BH 90210 (not the reboot) did it for the first time IIRC with their second season summer break (also tacking on a second Junior year for the kids).
I'm really creeped out and annoyed by Aunt Gwen in this episode. As soon as she caught Poey and told them to tell Dawson, that should have been it. Why did she meddle and push Dawson toward Joey after that? It's obvious Joey isn't into Dawson.
I was surprised that neither Andy, nor Dawson, nor Will had claimed the bed when Joey and Pacey walked into the bedroom...really, all of them on the floor? Seemed weird.
One thing that sticks out to me from this episode is something you said about Dawson.
ReplyDeleteBasically that, given how Aunt Gwen basically pushed him to Joey, giving him the painting and stuff, he probably thought he had more of a shot than he actually did, even after he found out about her and Pacey. He had history on his side, thanks to Gwen reminding him, and I think he thought that would somehow be enough. (LOL Spoiler Alert, it is not.)
Also, I LOVE TLD. I didn't at first, cause when I first watched I thought the repeated scenes were annoying (???? which is why I don't like Groundhog Day). But now, ten years later, I have a new appreciation for it and I love seeing everyone's different views. I wonder if they shot the scene with Dawson and Joey differently, because the mood is different each time.
One of my favorite things about this episode is the Jen/Joey friendship scenes. I love them so much and I wish we could have had much more than what we got.
Can we just talk about what wonderful actors everyone is??? Josh and Katie especially IMO (her scenes with Dawson and his scene at the end, at the dock), but James and Michelle are always obviously really good as well. So funny that so many goof actors got their start on this teen drama. :)
BTW, if my talking about the next episode here is a problem, I can 100% do something else. :)
DeleteFeel free to talk about future episodes in the comments!! :)
Delete-Traci
I can't decide which Aunt Gwen is worse at - understanding love or her "art".
ReplyDeleteDude, Aunt Gwen just sucks at life period lol I do wonder why tbey didn't bring her back for Gail and Mitch's.... wait has everybody on this site watched this show or are some watching for the first time along with Charles? Anyway, I wonder why Aunt Gwen didn't appear for not only the wedding but the funeral in s5. Dang, she sucked as a painter, an aunt, a friend, a sister, and her 2nd husband probably faked his death to get the heck away from her. Also what was she doing when they all first walked into her house? Was that supposed to be her dancing? I don't think Julie Bowen understood because she was just jerking her head like a chicken.
DeleteI too personally love a long podcast episode. I mean, I just love the way you guys go super in depth about every little details from the whole episode. I wouldn't mind if it was longer. hahaha :)
ReplyDeleteAunt gwen is so pushy i never liked her as for the next episode its literally my favorite episode of the entire series so much drama happens that you literally Can't look away i Can't wait to listen to you guys talk about it
ReplyDeleteOk pleeaaaase as your 50 review accomplishment do a summer series of Young Americans! Can you believe that when I was a little teenage baby I recorded the last episode and it cut off the last 5 minutes so therefore I never found out what the heck happened at the end of it all! This show is so Dawson’s Creek but on the racier side! It would be awesome if you guys could do this!
ReplyDeleteLets get into Aunt Gwen being so pushy. I can understand in the beginning when she asks them about what is going on, but AFTER she sees and REALIZES that Joey and Pacey are starting their own thing, the pushing should have stopped. But no, she shoves that painting in Dawsons face practically saying 'go get her', which is not only completely disrespectful to Dawson considering she knows what is happening behind the scenes, but to Joey as well, someone Aunt Gwen supposedly adores. Plus AG practically admits that she didn't find out/know what love was until later in life, so why is she trying to force a TEENAGER to absolutely know who he should be with for the rest of his life??
ReplyDeleteYes it is a set up storyline to get him thinking about Joey again, since he hasn't all season, but still it is weird to see a supposed adult messing in teenage relationships (yuh know cause they aren't messy enough without interference).